Recently I gave my first ever presentation at iO. It was about what it actually feels like to be a junior developer in a world where AI is just always there. This is a write-up of that talk, including what the room said back.

  • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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    28 minutes ago

    I’m not sure humans can do anything continuously without learning. It’s just a question of what your brain is filtering down to habit and experience. If your enemy is the compiler saying ‘error on line 314’ and line 314 is blank, you know to take a deep breath and start checking semicolons and braces. If your enemy is Copilot emitting ‘assert true’ tests, you know to grumble and move down a level in the specificity of your instructions.

    At the end of the day - does the project work?

  • nonentity@sh.itjust.works
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    7 hours ago

    I’ve never used a LLM willingly, and otherwise avoid interaction with them where possible.

    My base impression from interacting with those who actively choose to use LLMs, and unironically call them ‘AI’, is they’re a competency and credibility chipper.

    It’s one thing to leverage a tool, where it makes sense for a task, and can otherwise be justified, but there’s a carcinogenic effect on cognition at play with prolonged exposure to whatever form LLMs are in today.

    Also, happy 29th anniversary of Judgement Day.

  • Feyd@programming.dev
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    1 day ago

    The workflow was: Google it, find Stack Overflow, maybe actually read the documentation (said as a joke, but not really).

    Anyone that says this is not good at their job in the first place. I (and other actually competent devs I’ve talked to about it) have always gone straight to official documentation first. Stack overflow has its place, but it is not the first place to research.

    • iamtherealwalrus@lemmy.world
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      15 hours ago

      I have met few colleagues in my career who bothered to read the official documentation, even when failing to find the answer on Google. Most would either just give up and say the problem is unsolvable (it never was) or try hack after hack until something stuck, never knowing why it worked.

    • lysdexic@programming.dev
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      1 day ago

      I (and other actually competent devs I’ve talked to about it) have always gone straight to official documentation first.

      This is silly posturing. Anyone that is troubleshooting a problem tends to start by googling the error message, and more often than not Google will return SO hits, not official documentation.

      • iamtherealwalrus@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        Is that because you didn’t bother to read the documentation before using product X, and now you encountered some issue because you used X incorrectly?

        • hirihit640@sh.itjust.works
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          14 hours ago

          After years of using SO, then years of going to docs first, I’ve started going back to SO. It just tends to be faster. You can find a question that is 90% similar to yours, rather than piece together scattered bits of information across pages and pages of docs.

          • iamtherealwalrus@lemmy.world
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            11 hours ago

            I agree you can find an answer quickly on SO. And you can find it even faster by asking an AI. But you will not have learned much, if anything, by copy/pasting the answer. As opposed to reading the documentation, which might have taught you how to solve similar issues in the future.

            • hirihit640@sh.itjust.works
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              10 hours ago

              Well I can also tell you that from years of trying to go straight to documentation: you rarely learn anything. Often the docs are written badly and missing usage examples, so it’s unclear how certain options work. Often the tool you’re having trouble with is one you only use once a month so by the next time you use it you’ve forgotten everything you learned.

              Speaking from my experience, in most cases it’s just not worth it. In the few cases where it’s something you use every day, then sure invest some time in the docs.

    • Dnb@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 day ago

      Problem is docs are often out of date. Either old, or too new if you have to use an older version. So you can spend hours chasing your tail because what the docs and examples say works, doesn’t.

      I do agree to start there, but reading the raw code if available is often times the best, and AI can do that much faster if its source available. And ofc it can be wrong in how it “thinks” it should work but so can humans when skimming quickly.

      • Feyd@programming.dev
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        1 day ago

        Problem is docs are often out of date. Either old, or too new if you have to use an older version. So you can spend hours chasing your tail because what the docs and examples say works, doesn’t.

        I did say “first”, as in the first place you check and not saying you never have to go elsewhere.

        “often” is doing some heavy lifting here. Stack overflow and yes looking at source code are useful tools, but the vast majority of the time, the “stack overflow coders” completely eschewed the official documentation when reading it would have not only provided then the information they needed but also helped then develop an intuition for how a library worked that would have served them much better.

        Of course I mostly take issue with the blog presenting the experience of a “stack overflow coder” as a universal experience when it was just the experience of incompetents.

  • Feyd@programming.dev
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    1 day ago

    US CEOs experience imposter syndrome

    It’s not imposter syndrome if you’re really an imposter.

  • ignirtoq@feddit.online
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    1 day ago

    A short read, but I really got a lot out of it. One thing I’ve started losing with the rise of AI and didn’t realize until now is the communication with coworkers about current problems we’re working through. I reach out to people in the git-blame log, and others used to reach out to me. But now everyone asks the AI, so we’re even more siloed than before.

    It feels less like we’re working together and more like we’re working next to each other.

      • terabyterex@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        … yes, thats howall of us learn. what a weird comment. do you really think you just magically know everyyhing? we all benefit from the people who came before us.

        • onlinepersona@programming.dev
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          17 hours ago

          It’s just jibing. I don’t think the comment was meant in earnest. Many, including me have had bad bosses and felt unheard and left due to it.

          • terabyterex@lemmy.world
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            17 hours ago

            is that what he is saying? maybe it flew over my head? i honestly didnt know what poknt ge was trying to make. thank you fir taking the time to explain it.

  • TrackinDaKraken@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    That there’s a gap between “it works” and “I understand why it works” and that gap is getting wider, not smaller.

    20 years from now, important shit will go sideways, and no one will be able to fix it. That’s the world you’re building and that’s the world your kids will blame you for.