You must log in or # to comment.
- Natural monopolies should be nationalised. Network effects tend to be a significant characteristic of natural monopolies (my opinion).
- Payment infrastructure is critical for national security. Just the way cash is.
This is why imo, there should be a nationalised institution competing against private institutions like these.
- the nationalised institution must be owned by the state.
- its operations however must be organized as a consumer coop, where cardholders of this payment network are member owners. This would prevent the top down bureaucracy, corruption and inefficiencies that plague state owned corps.
I like how Visa/Master Card are shutting “indecent” games down, but have no fucking issues with twitter generating CSAM.
It’s never an issue when the criminal is rich.
It’s a crime if you’re poor and a fine if you’re rich and all’at.
Well, in this case, isn’t Valve the “criminal”?
Here in Czechia you can pay for online transactions with instant direct bank transfer, so cards are not really needed. This is often used for direct transfers between individuals where one generates a QR code on his phone and the other scans it.
That’s because Europe has SEPA, which are used in the EU.
Europeans mind can’t comprehend the issues of american banks.
They are so bad, it doesn’t make any sense.
Europeans mind can’t comprehend the issues of american banks.
Still need an American credit card to rent a car tho
No you don’t? What are you talking about?
Car rentals almost exclusively accept payment by credit card, unless you have a corporate account that is billed periodically.
I’m sure you can find an exception but please let’s not fly off to nitpick land.
My parents are not from the USA and don’t have USA bank accounts or credit cards and have had no problems renting a car in Europe or anywhere else they went. I really don’t get what you mean. I don’t see why you specifically need an American card and not just a credit card from any modern country.
I think you are making too sweeping of a statement here. Maybe this is the case for car rentals you encounter / have access to but the response should show that’s not the case everywhere in the EU. I rented a car without a credit card over 5 years ago where I’m from. You do pay a deposit that I suppose a credit card would normally insure for, but the option exists. Either way, if a car rental requires a credit card, I would not even consider renting with them. That’s ridiculous.
Look, if you go to mom and pop’s car rental, sure, they can accept hens as payment if they like. If you use car rentals the most common way, as a supplement for airport travel, you rent one in your city, you use it to go to the airport, return it, fly to your destination, rent another car at the airport, do your things, go back, repeat. At those locations you’ll only have the big names, AVIS, Hertz, Europcar… Those are mostly credit-card or corporate account exclusive. And corporate accounts are expensive, at my former company we had a bunch of people travelling constantly and it still wasn’t economically advantageous, apparently.
Also, you are just wrong about the big names you mentioned:
spoiler
Debit Cards – Accepted in many countries, but restrictions apply (see below)
In some countries, only credit cards are accepted—unless you’ve prepaid online with a debit card. If you prepaid your rental with a debit card, you must bring the same card to the counter, along with a valid credit card for the deposit. Your card must be in the name of the main driver, and valid for the entire duration of the rental.
Mini and Economy class; debit or credit card;
FVMR; debit or credit card;
Passenger van (9 pers.); debit or credit card;
Van; cash, debit card, or credit card;
Your debit card is now welcome at Hertz in Europe. Here at Hertz we like to make renting a car personal. You decide what to drive and where to drive, and now you can choose how to pay.
We welcome debit cards across our European locations. We want your journey with us to be easy, so giving you options on how to pay puts you in the driving seat. No complicated processes – a simple deposit that works the same for credit cards as debit cards. Go your own way. Pay your own way.
Visa/MasterCard is a tax in every transaction. You might not see it but it is there.
I hate that I don’t get like a 2% cash discount, I get like 3%+ from credit cards so justifying cash is kind of hard
If you have bad credit you don’t get perks like that. So addicts, poor people, anyone trying to turn their life around. This is a regressive tax.
No. In Sweden, 99% of all payments are cahsless. Most stores don’t even take cash anymore.
We still have plenty of (digital) options for payment in addition to Visa/Mastercard.
In my view, it’s actually the opposite. The more digital paymenst are used, the higher the incentive to create a competing payment solution. Swish and Klarna are taking over more and more here.
The destruction of cash in the EU is jusy disgusting. I dont want to have to leave a paper trail for everything.
In Canada we have Interac E-transfer for transferring funds from our standard chequing accounts to private businesses or people we’re buying things off of. We also have “virtual credit cards” that are just a CC number with an exp date and CVV that we can use for online purchases and that money comes out of our regular back account without the need for a credit account.
Most people still have and use Credit Cards but we are far less reliant on them here. Most of them time if someone has one it’s for the perks that card gives, like cash back on purchases or points for rewards like gift cards, tools, vacations, etc.
We also have “virtual credit cards” that are just a CC number with an exp date and CVV that we can use for online purchases and that money comes out of our regular back account without the need for a credit account.
So, like, a debit card?
No, as you cannot use your debit card for online credit card interactions.
You can’t use a debit card to buy things off Amazon.
You absolutely can, I did so this week.
That’s a new one for me. I didn’t realize in some countries you can’t use a debit card on Amazon. To be clear, I’m not talking about an ATM card, I’m talking about a debit card with a Visa or MasterCard logo.
what why??
Must be a regional thing, because no such restriction exists in the US
Funny that, since I said in my OP, I’m Canadian.
Oh, so you meant “on Amazon here” rather than the overly broad and objectively incorrect “on Amazon” that you wrote.
I wish I could pay in cash for online purchases from Amazon. Amazon has such a privacy nightmare that I cannot even hide or delete my purchase history. I know deleting the history doesn’t remove the trait or nullify anything, but the fact that it remains visible on your account is stupid. There are purchases that I dont want anyone looking at my account to know and sometimes I just like clearing it. I don’t care for shit I bought back in 2018 anymore.
Any better alternatives?
In the BeNeLux we have bol.com, a local alternative to amazon because amazon didn’t want to comply to our laws.
I consulted for a luxury brand on e-commerce for a bit and I was surprised how important credit card splitting was to their American business.
Like, people splitting a purchase across multiple cards because they were so close to the max for each.
I questioned how much time we were spending on it but they assured me it was a common use case.
I did this ONCE on a $10k required purchase. Never again.
Interesting, usually when I get into something that expensive, they don’t even want to accept credit cards. I think most I got someone to take as a credit card transaction was about $6,000. They’ll only take check or certified check, or if a car then of course they really want you to borrow through whatever they have partnered with.
unfortunately, was for a lawyer. paid it off in two months, but didn’t quite have $10k i cash in my pocket. it wasn’t for a DUI, i don’t drink lmao. thats the most common reason for lawyers i’ve heard.
Note I recently had to do some gymnastics to split a purchase over ‘credit cards’ because I had received a few modest gift cards. I suspect that’s an even more common case, since people want to completely use up a received gift card and that’s all but impossible without splitting. Even if I have 10s of thousands of available limit, a gift card means I’m trying to spend like $50 or $100 out of a card.
I HATE gift cards. Kiddo got one for Nintendo. We have a hacked switch! Can’t even use it.
Have a Home Depot one that says “invalid” or whatever wording, won’t let me use it.
Basically buying a piece of plastic, they take your money and tell you to fuck off. No one’s going to take them to court for $50, so it’s win-win all around for them.
Makes me wonder: how are they not have the same stronghold in Europe? They’re also everywhere there as well.
They do, but people also do a lot of bank transfers. Which is essentially a cash payment. But if you don’t have a local bank account and app, or the Wise app, then credit cards work just fine most places.
Albania is the only place I’ve seen that has zero trust in anything but cash, but that’s because their socialist era was so restrictive that after that regime fell, people were wholly unable to understand how basic things like banks or economics works. A single pyramid scheme basically crashed the government in 1996-97. It’s a fascinating story about how much learning a society has to do to change from an oppressive regime to something else.
Barcode?
Also I don’t think physical cash is a desirable alternative to the convenience of electronic payment.
electronic money can be taken away in an instant, by hackers, by your bank, by your government. You can lose access to your phone and other means of proving it’s you to use it. Cash is still cash, and having enough to get through an emergency is important.
If in the US, you want enough to bail your loved ones out of jail too, there are obscene fees involved for paying electronically.
Physical cash can be taken as well. All wealth can be stolen and all doors that function as doors can be broken into, physical or electronic.
Yeah for sure. Police in the us will steal your physical cash if they can find it too, where they can’t really steal your bank money, not with the so called civil asset forfeiture.
Do not keep all your eggs in one basket. If you have any eggs to put in baskets in the first place.
That is why the idea of cryptocurrency has caught on, a medium of exchange outside the control of government, that could be accessed electronically anywhere, but anonymous if you know what you are doing. No court orders to freeze your accounts. Obviously there are so many scammers into crypto it’s a nightmare but the idea, and bitcoin so far working if horribly environmentally destructive for no good reason, is still a seductive idea. A libertarian’s wet dream.
As someone who wants to be as untrackable as possible without arousing suspicion, yes please gimme cash for online transactions.
Recently visited a country where cash is very much preferred and it was such a breath of fresh air. I thought it would be annoying to have to keep up with the spare change and what not but it was fine and actually felt pretty good. I’ve since started using cash a lot more at home.
I recently had a trip to Japan and had more mixed opinions about it. Mainly because they have a large variety of coins and oh boy do you end up with a lot of them.
oh boy do you end up with a lot of them.
You just need more practice with the Japan Coin Simulator ;)
https://wendal.itch.io/japanese-money-simulatorTheoretically the most coins you should ever have is 15:
4x 1 yen
1x 5 yen
4x 10 yen
1x 50 yen
4x 100 yen
1x 500 yenIs 15 supposed to be not a lot?
It kind of is, but I love the 500 yen coin anyway. It’s the 2nd most valuable common coin in the world (I think) after the 5 Swiss franc, (or at least it is for now as the yen continues to tank, currently worth about $3 USD whereas 10 years ago it was $4 and 15 years ago was over $6). It makes your change jar actually worth decent money (imagine if filling up a 2 liter bottle was worth a couple thousand bucks instead of a few hundred) and it’s kinda fun to have a small change pouch in your pocket worth more than a hundred bucks.
Plus it’s gold colored so you can collect a pile and feel like a pirate
On the flip side they also have the very low value 1 yen coin which feels like a cheap board game coin when you have it in your hand
Yeah but at least the lack of heft feels like the trash it is. US pennies are worth shit but want to pretend they’re real coins. Also the 1 yen weighs exactly 1 g and floats on water.
I live in a country where it has become in a sense illegal not to be listed at an address. If you are not listed at an address, the government flags you as a missing person. If that happens, the banks lock you out of government ID, which is necessary to do basically any type of online banking, and if you have any funds behind an electronic ID wall, you won’t be able to access them.
Which country?
Lots of European countries have mandatory registration. It makes administration a lot easier.
Wtf is the point of all that? Sounds like it just makes the life of homeless people harder for no reason
That is the point. You must either be a land owner or pay rent to one.
I still don’t know why USians don’t simply use bank transfers. Uses neither cash nor credit cards, perfectly easy.
Lack of a publicly run & managed solution like in other countries. Pix in Brazil for example is created & managed by the Central Bank of Brazil to enable general purpose instant payments between anyone: individuals, businesses, the government, etc. In the US, the federal government won’t take such initiative, leaving the private sector to coordinate on their own, which is pretty much like herding cats. Network technology adoption & upgrades are voluntary, heterogenous, & slow. For transfers between banks, we can only assume the lowest common denominator of technology networks with longer settlement times.
For instant digital payment, we end up with a patchwork of privately run services wrapping over these legacy payment systems (ACH, payment card networks) like Zelle, PayPal, Venmo. Zelle (like Pix, which was inspired by Zelle) enables fairly instant transfers between bank accounts, but only between participating banks. Since it’s a money transfer & not a credit card payment, it lacks fraud payment protection much like EU counterparts. This surprises scam victims who’ve come to expect the same protections as credit cards.
